The Red Bull Power Struggle: 50+1, Werner’s Fate, & The Demichelis Gamble

Justin Crozer: 00:00:02

Imagine leading a team back into the Champions League, you

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secure third place in the Bundesliga,

you navigate a massive summer rebuild,

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and your sporting director publicly

hails your ability to unite the squad.

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You've done exactly what was asked of you.

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And your reward?

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You might be out of a job by the weekend.

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That is the reality for Ole

Werner right now at RB Leipzig.

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But the really crazy part?

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The man tipped to replace him

just got relegated from La Liga.

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Today, we aren't just talking about

tactics, we are talking about power.

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We're peeling back the curtain on the

Red Bull corporate machine to understand

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who really pulls the strings in Leipzig,

and why a massive internal clash

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might be about to change everything

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Welcome to RBL Talk, the premier

English-speaking podcast dedicated to

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the beautiful, chaotic, and relentlessly

ambitious world of RB Leipzig.

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It's 2:30 AM here in the studio.

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The coffee is brewing, and whether

you are tuning in on your commute in

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Germany, working late in the US, or

having your morning tea in the UK,

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I'm thrilled to have you with me.

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Today's episode is going to be heavy.

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We're diving deep into the

structural labyrinth of RB Leipzig.

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If you've ever wondered how the 50

plus one rule actually works or how

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Leipzig legally maneuvers around it,

you're going to want to hear this one.

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We'll break down the dynamic between the

supervisory board's grand vision and the

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club management's day-to-day reality.

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Then we'll head straight into the

digital terrace, hear your voices

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on the Ole Werner situation before

I give my unfiltered thoughts

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on the frankly baffling rumors

linking us to Martin Demichelis.

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All right, let's get straight into it.

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To understand why Ole Werner's job is

hanging by a thread, despite having the

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full backing of our managing director

for sport, Marcel Schäfer, you have

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to understand how RB Leipzig is built.

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In Germany, the fifty

plus one rule is sacred.

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It's designed to stop outside investors

from taking total control of a club.

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The rule mandates that the club's

members, the fans, must retain

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fifty percent plus one vote in the

professional football operation.

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At clubs like Bayern Munich or Borussia

Dortmund, that means thousands of

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fans voting on major decisions.

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So how does RB Leipzig operate

so smoothly under a massive

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corporate umbrella like Red Bull?

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It's a masterclass in

exploiting legal loopholes.

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Instead of opening up membership

to the public, RB Leipzig's voting

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membership is strictly restricted.

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We're talking about a tiny, exclusive

group of members, usually numbering

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around two dozen, and historically,

almost all of them are directly employed

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by or closely affiliated with Red Bull.

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So technically and legally, the members

hold the majority voting rights over the

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professional football company, the GmbH.

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But in reality, the corporate

parent holds all the cards

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Now, how does that translate

to the men running the show?

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We have a two-tier board system.

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On the ground, running the day-to-day

operations, you have the management

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board, spearheaded by Marcel Schafer.

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He oversees the squad, the

scouting, and the daily running

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of the sporting department.

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He's the guy at the Cottaweg

Training Facility every single day.

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But floating above him is a

supervisory board, chaired by

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none other than Oliver Mintzlaff.

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And remember, Mintzlaff isn't

just looking out for Leipzig.

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He's one of the top executives in

the entire global Red Bull empire.

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The supervisory board is

the ultimate watchdog.

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They don't pick the starting 11 on

a Saturday, but they control the

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budget, approve the major transfers,

and crucially, they have the power to

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hire and fire the management board.

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This is where the friction happens.

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Schafer wants to build something

sustainable with Ole Werner.

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He looks at the data, he looks

at the third-place finish, and he

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says, "We are on the right track."

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But Mintzlaff, along with the global

sports director, Jurgen Klopp, and

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technical director, Mario Gomez,

are looking at the global brand.

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They demand a specific

high-octane style of football.

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If they feel Werner doesn't fit

the global Red Bull identity, it

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doesn't matter what Schafer thinks.

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It's a classic corporate clash,

the regional manager fighting for

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his guy against a global board of

directors, and usually, the board wins.

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That brings us perfectly

to the Digital Terrace.

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I put out a call to action across our

social media platforms and right inside

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the Discord server because I wanted your

unfiltered takes on this entire chaotic

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situation, and wow, you guys did deliver.

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The terrace is completely split

down the middle, struggling to

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balance the pragmatism of what

Werner achieved with the looming

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corporate shadow of Martin Demichelis.

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Let's go through these takes one

by one because you've raised some

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incredible tactical and structural

points that we need to address.

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First up, let's look at

our social media over on X.

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Joel with username XTO Jebosa sent

a take translated from Polish that

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actually leans into the optimism.

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Joel says, "I'd give Dem Chellis a shot.

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I saw him at River.

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He did well.

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In Malla Rocca, he did incredibly

with the team already relegated.

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Very few chances.

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Surely they've seen something we haven't.

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I like his attacking play from the back.

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Opportunity

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Joel, mate, I appreciate the optimism,

and you're spot on about his style

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of building out from the back.

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That's exactly what caught the eye of the

analysts at Red Bull Soccer International.

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But we have to be real

about the Malloroca stint.

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Yes, the ship was already sinking

when he took over, but the

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structural fragility didn't improve.

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However, your point that

surely they've seen something

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we haven't is the crux of it.

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When you have Jurgen Klopp and Mari

Gomez driving the data analysis

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behind the scenes, they aren't

just looking at the league table.

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They are looking at

underlying tactical metrics.

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They see the opportunity to

mold his philosophy into a

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broader Red Bull framework.

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But not everyone is

convinced by the profile.

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LazJasMan jumped into the Discord channel

and took a fascinating middle ground.

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He wrote, "I already wrote in the

Discord channel weeks ago that I think

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a sacking would be the right way.

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But honestly, I don't think

Demichelis is the right fit.

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This replacement seems

kinda desperate or rushed.

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The only better solution would've

been Glasner, in my opinion.

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But I don't think that we'd

have enough pull for him."

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I think you hit the nail right

on the head regarding the feeling

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of this move, Laz Jazz Man.

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It does feel rushed because

the public narrative was that

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Werner had earned his safety.

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If you're going to make a ruthless

change, the fans expect a slam dunk

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appointment, and your shout for

Oliver Glasner, absolutely massive.

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Glasner understands the Red Bull

system inside and out from his

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Salzburg days, and his high-intensity

transition football is legendary

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Plus, as we saw confirmed, he is

officially leaving Crystal Palace

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at the end of his contract this

month, making him a free agent.

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We wouldn't even have to pay a single

euro in compensation to get him.

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But you are completely

right about the pull factor.

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Glasner just delivered a golden era at

Palace, winning the FA Cup, the Community

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Shield, and the UEFA Conference League.

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His stock is through the absolute

roof right now, and he's being heavily

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linked to massive jobs like AC Milan.

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We have to be brutally

honest with ourselves.

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Is returning to the Red Bull multi-club

system an attractive enough project for

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him at this peak stage of his career?

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And beyond that, after sweeping

three major trophies in England,

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his salary demands have likely

skyrocketed well past what our

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corporate structure is willing to pay.

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That financial and structural reality

is probably exactly why the hierarchy

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shifted focus so aggressively toward

a project manager like Demichelis

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Then we have Nitroso, who is looking

at the actual performance on the pitch

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this season and scratching their head.

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Nitroso says, I don't really understand

why we're kicking Werner out.

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He had a pretty solid season.

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The rebuild from down form was very nice

and very rare for a few seasons now.

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I would understand if we fired him for

a world-class or up-and-coming manager,

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but I haven't heard of Demichelis

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Notoroso, that point about the

rebound is incredibly important.

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Historically, when Leipzig has hit

the mid-season slump in recent years,

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the wheels have completely fallen off.

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Werner showed real maturity by steadying

the ship, managing squad rotation, and

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grinding out results to secure third.

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For a lot of the fans, turning your

back on a manager who proved he

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can handle a crisis just to bring

in a name that a lot of European

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football fans aren't intimately

familiar with feels incredibly harsh.

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It defies standard football

logic, and that's why the fan

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base is feeling so uneasy.

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And if you wanna talk about breaking

down the Demichelis myth, Ava did

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not pull any punches in his reply.

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Ava broke it down into three parts.

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First, he acknowledges Werner.

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He did a better job than I was expecting.

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Losing our three most valuable

players and still getting one of

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the best seasons ever is amazing.

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But Diamande was a big

reason for this too.

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But then he switches focus to Demichelis,

and this is where it gets spicy.

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Thoughts on replacing him.

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Rivers fans are impressed at his agent

because he has broken every locker

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room that he has coached and did

shit in monetary with infinite money.

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If RB wanted Demichelis' style,

then Marcelo Gallardo was

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better at literally everything.

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He's coaching in Arabia and one of

the best coaches in South America.

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Ava is bringing the fire.

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And honestly, he's tapping into some very

real concerns coming out of South America.

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Demichelis' exit from River Plate

wasn't just about the results.

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There were heavy rumors of friction with

senior players in the dressing room.

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If he struggled to manage egos at River

and monetary, how is he going to handle

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a young, highly ambitious, multimillion

euro dressing room in Leipzig?

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And that Gallarado shout is fascinating.

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Gallarado is a tactical heavyweight,

but here is the difference, Ava.

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Gallarado is an autocrat.

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He wants total control over

recruitment and club philosophy.

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In the Red Bull structure, with

Klopp, Gomez, and Minslav steering

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the ship, they don't want an autocrat.

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They want a head coach who

will work within their system.

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Demichelis is viewed as

someone who can be guided.

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Gallarado would want

to run the whole show.

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Now let's look at KS Murph, who

brought a brilliant analytical

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perspective to the table.

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He writes, "I personally

am against this decision.

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Werner was given a target and achieved it.

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For me, this earns him another season.

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However, I will admit

having some questions.

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Of all the big signings last summer,

Romulu, Harder, Maksimovic, Bakayoko,

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Diamande, only one has been a success.

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Is that because we signed bad

players or the coach was unable

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to get the best out of them?

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If the higher-ups intend to continue

to focus on signing youth, which

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I expect, perhaps they do not feel

he is the coach to develop them."

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KS Murph, you have just laid out

the exact corporate justification

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that is likely being spoken inside

Oliver Mintslaff's office right now.

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This is the absolute core of the issue.

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Red Bull's entire business model

relies on buying players like Romelu,

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Harder, and Maksimovic for modest

fees, developing them into superstars,

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and generating massive asset growth.

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If Yann Diamande is the only youth

player truly exploding under Werner,

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the corporate accountants and

global directors start panicking.

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They look at the millions of euros

sitting on the bench or stagnating,

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and they blame the manager's

training methods or tactical system.

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If Klopp and Gomez believe Werner's

tactical style is actively capping

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the development and market value of

our young assets, then in their eyes,

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keeping him is a financial risk,

regardless of whether he finished third.

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It's brutal, cold way to look

at football, but that is the

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reality of the multi-club model.

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Finally, let's welcome our newest digital

terrace member, Tee Jae, T-E-E J-A-E, who

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wrapped up the discussion beautifully.

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Tee Jae said, "My thoughts on

Werner was that it wasn't the best

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football to watch, but he was a young

manager, and I figured a couple of

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seasons in he would find his feet.

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Demichelis doesn't really seem like a RB

type of manager, but paying his release

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clause, they must think that he's capable.

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It's not like he was a

manager on the free market.

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We actively sought out to sign him.

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I'm trusting the RB hierarchy.

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Maybe Nagelsmann can return one day

when he's done with the national team.

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That's the dream."

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Welcome to The Terrace, Tee Jae, mate,

and your second point is incredibly sharp.

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The fact that Leipzig is willing to

actively pay a release clause to pry

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Demichelis away proves this isn't a

passive, desperate choice of convenience.

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They didn't just look at who

was sitting at home on the sofa.

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They targeted his

specific tactical profile.

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The hierarchy is definitely looking

to the future here, even if it feels

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jarring to what we are used to.

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As for the Julian Nagelsmann homecoming

dream, man, you and maybe the entire city

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of Leipzig are holding onto that one.

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If anyone could bridge the gap between

corporate ambition and fan passion,

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it's him, or maybe even Marco Rose

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From Joel's tactical optimism to

Ava's dressing room warnings and KS

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Murph's massive point about youth

development, the terrace has completely

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exposed the massive fault lines

running through this club right now.

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It is an absolute pressure cooker, and we

are about to see who can handle the heat.

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We're going to take a very quick

break, but do not go anywhere.

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When we come back, we're looking

at the cold, hard numbers.

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I'm giving you my unfiltered verdict on

the Demichelis gamble, and we'll unpack

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exactly why this decision is forcing

Marcelo Schafer into the ultimate corner

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Hey everyone, Justin here.

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While we've got a quick breather,

I wanna take a second to talk about

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the behind the scenes of RBL Talk.

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As you know, this show is

fiercely 100% independent.

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In fact, if you follow the RBL Talk

YouTube channel, you might have seen

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the video I put out discussing this.

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I was actually approached with an

offer to join the Talk Sport Fan

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Network, and I turned it down.

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I said no because I wanna keep

this community exactly what it has

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always been, completely fan-driven,

completely unfiltered, and totally

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free from corporate strings.

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: 00:15:27

It is always just going to be me hitting

record at 2:30 in the morning to get

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the show out to you every Wednesday

afternoon, fueled entirely by caffeine

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and absolute obsession with RB Leipzig.

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: 00:15:39

Staying independent means I cover all

the running costs for the show, like

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the Captivate hosting fees and equipment

maintenance straight out of my own pocket,

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and I'm completely happy doing that.

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But a few of you have been

asking how you can help out.

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If you ever wanna throw a few bucks

into the tip jar, there's a support

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link right down in the show notes.

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: 00:15:57

Please know that this

is entirely optional.

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: 00:15:59

There is absolutely zero pressure, and

every single cent goes directly back into

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keeping the lights on for the podcast.

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: 00:16:06

Honestly though, the absolute best way

to support the show doesn't cost a dime.

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Go check out that video on the YouTube

channel, hit Subscribe, and join us

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over in the Digital Terraces on Discord.

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It is the true heartbeat

of this community.

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All right.

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Break is over.

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Let's get back to the hard data.

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Welcome back to RBL Talk.

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Now that the terrace has set the stage,

let's look at the hard, cold evidence.

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If you're going to swap out a manager

who just brought Champions League

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football back to Leipzig, the data behind

that decision needs to be airtight.

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I've spent the morning digging directly

into the Sofascore managerial profiles

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for both Ole Werner and Martín Demichelis.

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When you pull up their data sheets

and look at them side by side, the

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contrast is absolutely staggering.

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It tells you everything about why

our front office is paralyzed by

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this massive ideological divide.

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Let's look at Werner first.

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Over his entire career spanning

more than four hundred matches,

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his average points per match sits

at a solid one point seven zero.

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But look at his record right here with us.

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Thirty-eight matches, twenty-three

wins, five draws, and ten losses.

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That translates to an incredible

one point nine five points per match

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in his debut season with Leipzig.

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Let that number sink in, 1.95.

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He took a squad that lost its three most

valuable assets last summer, hit his

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target, finished third, and maintained a

60% win rate across the entire campaign.

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By every conventional metric in

football, that data earns you a

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contract extension, not a P45.

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Now, if you open up Sofascore, it lists

Werner's preferred formation as a 3-5-2.

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But if you actually watched us week

in and week out, you know the reality

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on the grass was completely different.

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Werner adapted.

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He shelved his historical preference

and deployed a 4-3-3, essentially

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all season to accommodate our squad.

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: 00:18:08

So if Werner is already playing a 4-3-3,

which ironically aligns with the modern

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: 00:18:13

tactical shift Jurgen Klopp wants to

see across the Red Bull network, why

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: 00:18:18

are Klopp, Gomez, and Minslav still

pushing him toward the exit door?

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: 00:18:24

Because the corporate hierarchy isn't

looking at the numbers on the whiteboard.

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: 00:18:29

They are looking at

the nature of the play.

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: 00:18:31

Werner's 4-3-3 this season

leaned heavily toward pragmatism,

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: 00:18:36

structural security, and control.

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: 00:18:39

It stabilised us, yes, but it lacked that

breathless, heavy metal, hyper-pressing

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: 00:18:44

intensity that defines the global brand.

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: 00:18:49

When you look at Demichelis' SofaScore

profile, his career average sits at 1.90

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: 00:18:54

points per match, with an elite 1.98

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: 00:18:57

at River Plate and a 2.03

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: 00:19:00

developing youth at Bayern Munich 2.

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: 00:19:05

His listed preference is a

front-footed aggressive 4-2-3-1.

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: 00:19:10

K.S.

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: 00:19:10

Murph made the ultimate

point on the terrace earlier.

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: 00:19:14

Last summer, we dropped massive money on

Romelu, Harder, Maksimovic, and Bakayoko.

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: 00:19:18

Under Werner's pragmatic implementation

of the 4-3-3, these dynamic vertical

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: 00:19:25

profile players spent most of

the season struggling to adapt or

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: 00:19:28

sitting on the bench, while Yann

Diamande carried the tactical load.

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: 00:19:33

When the global team looks at the

data, they don't see a formation issue.

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: 00:19:37

They see a development issue.

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: 00:19:40

They look at Demichelis' history of

utilizing a high line, high turnover

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: 00:19:44

4-2-3-1 with River and Bynes Youth,

and they believe he's the key

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: 00:19:49

to unlocking those multi-million

euro investments on the bench.

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: 00:19:53

They want an aggressive verticality,

and Werner's version of the

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: 00:19:56

4-3-3 simply doesn't deliver.

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: 00:20:01

But here is the massive gamble.

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: 00:20:05

Proven his 1.95

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: 00:20:06

points per match is sustainable in

the pressure cooker of the Bundesliga,

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: 00:20:11

and he proved he could adapt his

tactics to fit the club's needs.

335

: 00:20:15

Demichelis' high line system might

look beautiful on a data spreadsheet in

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: 00:20:20

corporate headquarters, but implementing

it midstream at a club where the

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: 00:20:24

sporting director, Marcel Schafer, is

public backing the current guy, that's

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: 00:20:29

a recipe for a locker room disaster.

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: 00:20:32

Ava warned us about his past record

of fracturing dressing rooms, and

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: 00:20:36

if he tries to force an unforgiving

high line on a squad that's built its

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: 00:20:40

success on Werner's stability, that 1.90

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: 00:20:44

career average could plummet fast.

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: 00:20:48

Ultimately, this data comparison reveals

the ultimate truth about modern football.

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: 00:20:53

Runs on the board.

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: 00:20:54

He has the 1.95

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: 00:20:57

points per match to prove he can win

here, and the tactical flexibility

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: 00:21:01

to play the system required.

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: 00:21:03

But Martin Demichelis has the dogma,

And in the modern Red Bull Empire,

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: 00:21:07

sometimes corporate identity matters

more than the actual points on the table.

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: 00:21:13

It is the ultimate gamble of data

versus reality, and it's putting

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: 00:21:18

in a position where he might have

to compromise his own sporting

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: 00:21:21

principles to fall in line with the

global corporate mandate or risk

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: 00:21:25

being on the chopping block himself.

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: 00:21:29

And that brings us to the end of a very

heavy but incredibly important episode.

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: 00:21:34

This club never sleeps and neither

do we Now I wanna hear from you.

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: 00:21:38

For the next episode, I want your

takes on this power struggle.

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: 00:21:42

What's your predictions before we start

the new campaign in just 60-odd days?

358

: 00:21:47

Will Marcel Schafer get the axe?

359

: 00:21:50

Will Jürgen Klopp's grand tactical vision

be with Demichelis or someone else?

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: 00:21:55

You can send your thoughts via our

SpeakPipe link in the show notes.

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: 00:21:58

You get up to five minutes of

audio to make your case, and I'll

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: 00:22:02

play the best ones on the show.

363

: 00:22:04

You can also drop a comment directly

on Spotify or jump straight into

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: 00:22:07

the Digital Terrace Discord.

365

: 00:22:09

The link is in the description, and

the tactical channels are open 24/7.

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: 00:22:14

If you enjoyed today's breakdown,

please hit that subscribe button,

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: 00:22:17

leave us a review, and share

the podcast with a fellow fan.

368

: 00:22:21

Hearing your voices on the Terrace

today is exactly why this show exists.

369

: 00:22:25

RBL Talk is and always will be

entirely free from corporate sponsors.

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: 00:22:30

We have no agendas.

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: 00:22:31

We answer to no gatekeepers.

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: 00:22:33

This is just pure independent Leipzig

passion for the fans, by the fans.

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: 00:22:38

I've been Justin Crozer, and

until next time, bye-bye for now